Student Loans

Paying back student loans plague millions of Americans, however, with the work of President Biden and team (many Black women) a portion of loans will be forgiven. Masses of people rejoiced at the news, but it left a few people mad... they have no loans to be forgiven. 

On today's episode of Black Girl Fly, Tenisha and Tashaunda discuss hearing the news with no loans, happiness for others, and the myth of college. Is college the only/main way to success now? 

Join the conversation on Instagram and let us know what you think @blackgirlflyofficial

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
[:23] Introduction
[:40] We Mad
[5:16] There's a Greater Educational Debt Issue
[7:50] College Only Makes Sense for Some 
[15:23] College is a Business... Look for ROI
[21:00] Learning Can be Free
[26:02] Takeaways

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Transcript

00;27;04;29 - 00;30;46;18
Speaker 2
And I'm Shani Dixon and we are black girl fly.

00;30;48;13 - 00;31;04;19
Speaker 1
Welcome back to another episode of Black Girl Flight. I'm your girl, please. Nicole. I'm John Dixon. And today we are talking about student loans. Okay. And this was a little bit of a challenging topic for us to talk.

00;31;04;19 - 00;31;08;19
Speaker 3
About because we bet we are sad.

00;31;08;19 - 00;31;13;10
Speaker 2
And I want to know if there's anybody else like this. So we paid off our student loans.

00;31;13;13 - 00;31;17;19
Speaker 1
We did. We're blessed and fortunate to be able to thank them.

00;31;17;28 - 00;31;22;01
Speaker 2
But I'm just saying, some people get into forgiven. Can I give my money back?

00;31;22;06 - 00;31;25;15
Speaker 1
That's how I feel. I mean, I'm just in real regret that.

00;31;25;15 - 00;31;25;21
Speaker 3
I.

00;31;25;27 - 00;31;28;03
Speaker 1
Actually paid that off because.

00;31;28;12 - 00;31;31;27
Speaker 3
It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money I got to use of so.

00;31;31;27 - 00;31;52;07
Speaker 1
Many other things. Yeah, so many other things and so I have a lot of questions about this, but I mean, so I brought this conversation out with a group. Well, I was talking to a group of friends and one of them brought it up. They're like, Oh yeah, have you heard about this? I was like, Yeah, I've been hearing about it, but I don't got loans, so I don't really affect me.

00;31;52;07 - 00;32;14;12
Speaker 1
And then the other person on the call was like, Me either, but the person who was telling us were like was saying that they have a mountain mountain in pretty much all of it is going to be forgiven because of their public service of ten years. And I was like, and she's like so happy about it and like it's such a blessing for her, right.

00;32;14;12 - 00;32;30;21
Speaker 1
Not to have this mountain bearing upon her. And then the other side of me was mad. And then the other side of me was like, Well, isn't it amazing that we can say, you know, the other two of us on this call can say that we don't have student loans. Yeah, that's not what like.

00;32;30;26 - 00;32;36;06
Speaker 2
When you first of up, I was like, well we like aren't student aren't only supposed to be ten repayment.

00;32;36;06 - 00;32;47;25
Speaker 3
It's like if you get out at 22, shouldn't you be down by 32? That's a good question. But I.

00;32;47;25 - 00;32;55;10
Speaker 1
Remember when I was in high school, our dean, he had to be 40 something at this time and.

00;32;55;11 - 00;32;59;27
Speaker 2
It was he really 40? Because I feel like you just aren't good at gauging. And back then everybody seemed out.

00;33;00;06 - 00;33;02;18
Speaker 3
Everybody did. I'm going to say side note.

00;33;02;26 - 00;33;13;26
Speaker 2
I did look at one of our old teachers and I realized he was only he's only 13 years older than me. And so I was in high school. I was like, wait, when I was in high school, he's only 31. I thought he was so old.

00;33;15;03 - 00;33;35;13
Speaker 1
Some of my friends, our teacher that weren't our friends, but some of my classmates, our teachers at our school now and they've been for years, which is weird. But no, this guy had to be either late thirties, early forties. Oh, I'm like, I know I'm going crazy on this one. And he was the dean like them. He was like the senior teachers.

00;33;35;14 - 00;33;41;22
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I'm like, but he was. I remember him distinctly saying that he was still paying off his student loans.

00;33;41;22 - 00;33;43;05
Speaker 3
And so yeah, I'm not. Well, I guess for.

00;33;43;08 - 00;33;48;20
Speaker 2
Some people who have higher I think it did they they had like a 20 year program right where they restructured it or some of.

00;33;48;20 - 00;34;06;10
Speaker 1
Them and they must like some of the private loans maybe. And then I know a bunch of people who were deferring and different things at different points in their lives based on income, based on, you know, situations that just feel like their ways. And our grandmother.

00;34;07;16 - 00;34;08;22
Speaker 3
Like they were there at.

00;34;08;22 - 00;34;11;17
Speaker 1
Least ten years ago. So they she was the waiter.

00;34;12;25 - 00;34;19;00
Speaker 3
Yeah. Oh, I see. I mean, that was like, I would be lucky.

00;34;19;00 - 00;34;26;05
Speaker 4
To be back no matter my. Like.

00;34;26;29 - 00;34;44;00
Speaker 3
You just get and, you know. You mad? Yes. Can I give some money? I need a rebate. They do a rebate. I was upset about.

00;34;44;00 - 00;34;46;27
Speaker 1
These child care credits and all these girls.

00;34;47;18 - 00;34;50;09
Speaker 2
But you have to pay child care.

00;34;50;26 - 00;34;52;13
Speaker 3
In order to qualify, you know.

00;34;53;01 - 00;34;58;00
Speaker 2
And then that means you only get a percentage back. I pay the same amount of education fees as.

00;34;58;00 - 00;34;59;01
Speaker 3
All these people.

00;35;00;02 - 00;35;04;21
Speaker 1
Out of families. I was like, I need to have some kids and go, because this is very lucrative.

00;35;04;21 - 00;35;06;25
Speaker 3
Oh, let's get this right. So you had.

00;35;06;25 - 00;35;07;23
Speaker 2
To pay a thousand to get.

00;35;07;24 - 00;35;14;04
Speaker 3
To do it. Don't make it so now I'm not sick.

00;35;14;04 - 00;35;16;19
Speaker 2
Of I can give you my $24,000 child.

00;35;16;27 - 00;35;20;00
Speaker 1
Me Oh God, I'm not making sense.

00;35;20;23 - 00;35;25;18
Speaker 3
That is the love life. But I think it's.

00;35;25;24 - 00;35;34;03
Speaker 1
I think it's a fascinating topic, number one, because this is something people have been calling for. Yeah. For a long time.

00;35;34;06 - 00;36;05;23
Speaker 2
Well, and I think it kind of puts into question the whole value of these bachelor degrees and master's degrees too. Like like I think that this is just symptomatic of the fact that people who go get these degrees don't necessarily make the income necessary to pay it off. And I mean, to your point, everything that you mentioned about how these got prolonged or how there's so much of it is because, one, they're not making the income that they thought they would make to be able to cover or they weren't properly educated on the amount that they would have to pay back.

00;36;06;04 - 00;36;16;02
Speaker 2
In going back, I mean, all of those things speak to the fact that there's a greater issue with why so many people have such mountain, you know, student loan debt. Yeah.

00;36;16;06 - 00;36;45;28
Speaker 1
And and I want to take it a bit further. It's significant that Joe Biden did this in significant that black women are the reason why Joe Biden's. Because when we really look at the folks who are impacted, like, you know, with the debt having to carry the debt, not having the knowledge of, you know, what it means to take out the debt, who what communities are those really targeting and cyber, I feel like college has gotten.

00;36;46;11 - 00;36;47;00
Speaker 3
So I.

00;36;47;00 - 00;36;55;03
Speaker 1
Don't know how this happened, but our parents generation have really like shoved college down our throats.

00;36;55;04 - 00;36;56;25
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was the only way to be.

00;36;56;28 - 00;37;03;04
Speaker 1
That only way to be successful and yeah. Took it too far. Yeah, I just really took it too.

00;37;03;06 - 00;37;12;02
Speaker 2
But. But you can't get mad at them, right? You can't get mad. You have to acknowledge that in their lifetime, education was the only way out.

00;37;12;15 - 00;37;18;08
Speaker 1
Yes, it really was. But sometime in the last ten years, the tides.

00;37;18;12 - 00;37;42;19
Speaker 2
It did. It did. But but you have to recognize that people are only knowledgeable about what their own experiences were. And that's what they use as a compass for helping the people they love. Right? Yeah. Like I was reading Michelle Obama's becoming and she talks about this. She she stated and she still stated it while she was first lady that education is the way out.

00;37;42;19 - 00;38;12;27
Speaker 2
Education is the only way to change your circumstances. And she was in our our parents generation. Right, right, right. She went to school with mom at one point, but she was that was the life and you have to recognize that her parents couldn't get education. And by the time she got an education, it was the first time that they opened doors to higher level, to white collar jobs, to to places that could actually take her generation out of that socio economic place.

00;38;13;12 - 00;38;34;05
Speaker 1
And it and it makes sense, I think I think really the thing that I like to preach about is the the shift college still makes sense for some. You want to go into a specialized field, become a doctor. You ain't going to be able to get there without college. Right. Like you need to put in your time, you need to learn the fundamentals.

00;38;34;17 - 00;38;50;13
Speaker 1
But there are also routes, too, that people don't think about physician assistant school or becoming a nurse or becoming a holistic practitioner, which is a completely different route in. So I'm like, I think there's that is an example of how the scope has gotten so far.

00;38;50;14 - 00;39;05;20
Speaker 2
Even greater than that. I know so many people put this out there. You can say what you want to you in fact say something to me. Say thing with business degrees. Yes. It would be so much more productive if you actually worked in Business First.

00;39;05;20 - 00;39;06;15
Speaker 3
Yeah, it would.

00;39;06;15 - 00;39;17;13
Speaker 2
Be, yes. I mean, and then you go out these marketing degrees, by the time you get to college, marketing has already shifted with what you need to know, best practices and all of that stuff.

00;39;17;14 - 00;39;21;12
Speaker 1
There are some degree lines that shouldn't exist. I mean, English.

00;39;21;12 - 00;39;25;11
Speaker 2
And undergrad in psychology, you can't do crap with that.

00;39;25;11 - 00;39;25;25
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;39;26;03 - 00;39;52;27
Speaker 1
So they're so right. I think the technical fields and that's a caveat on that. I would say specialized fields. Yeah. Like doctor lawyer right there where you know, you have to keep going. I want to talk about academia because that's a whole nother boat. But I'm like, I think as young people we just really need to start questioning our parents a bit and thinking about the kind of career that we want.

00;39;53;06 - 00;39;55;08
Speaker 1
But for that, I'm going to.

00;39;55;08 - 00;40;02;27
Speaker 2
Question you on that, though I'm still challenged with the idea that you go to college straight out of high school, that you're 18 years old.

00;40;02;27 - 00;40;04;03
Speaker 3
And. You think you should?

00;40;04;21 - 00;40;08;28
Speaker 1
I don't think you should. Ever since I was in college, I used to say I wish I would.

00;40;09;06 - 00;40;26;23
Speaker 2
But but I believe that that has prolonged this whole student loan thing. Right. Because I know so many people. I have my friend circle in college I could name wall they they went in there and they were like at 18, I want to be at this. I want to be in that area. And two.

00;40;26;23 - 00;40;28;10
Speaker 3
Years later you're like, I don't.

00;40;28;10 - 00;40;30;12
Speaker 2
Want to do this at all. I just wasted 60.

00;40;30;12 - 00;40;33;21
Speaker 3
Credit and let me do this instead.

00;40;34;02 - 00;40;41;29
Speaker 2
Like, like I know legit people who spend four and five extra years in college, extra student.

00;40;41;29 - 00;40;43;17
Speaker 1
Loans trying to figure out their.

00;40;43;17 - 00;40;44;00
Speaker 2
Career.

00;40;44;00 - 00;41;06;01
Speaker 1
Yes. Yes, I was one I mean, I was one of those people I changed my major two years in and I cannot tell you it was such an ordeal. It was me and this other guy. His parents were from Venezuela and we were like, Oh my God, we're so miserable in our majors. Like, but we're terrified to tell our.

00;41;06;01 - 00;41;06;20
Speaker 3
Parents I.

00;41;06;20 - 00;41;07;08
Speaker 2
Was training.

00;41;07;08 - 00;41;08;03
Speaker 1
Major went through.

00;41;08;03 - 00;41;12;27
Speaker 2
Her to her junior year in engineering and then decided she wouldn't be a nurse.

00;41;14;05 - 00;41;20;27
Speaker 1
The last two months before graduation, I asked my advisor if I could change my mind.

00;41;20;27 - 00;41;24;06
Speaker 3
I didn't know that, but that's hilarious. But no.

00;41;24;24 - 00;41;29;07
Speaker 2
So I was a little bit crazy on a credit like that and I wanted to be wasted and I was very frugal back then too.

00;41;29;18 - 00;41;32;08
Speaker 3
But I was thinking about the rest of it.

00;41;32;17 - 00;41;40;07
Speaker 2
But I was the only one. Everybody was going to be crazy. Like, Where are you in the career office? Why are you being so adamant about giving these particular class? You can take any of these class.

00;41;40;07 - 00;41;45;14
Speaker 1
People were out here in Vienna. What is it? The the what.

00;41;45;14 - 00;41;46;16
Speaker 3
Is that road.

00;41;46;16 - 00;41;52;11
Speaker 1
The house, mom or whatever? The dorm people get free house.

00;41;52;11 - 00;41;54;04
Speaker 2
Yeah. The sorry, the.

00;41;54;04 - 00;42;01;10
Speaker 1
All right. People were over here getting a job so they can have free housing and get paid. That was never occurring to my little brain.

00;42;02;14 - 00;42;07;11
Speaker 3
Not even thinking about this. But yeah, like they let me in here. I mean, here, I'm like, they.

00;42;07;11 - 00;42;10;00
Speaker 1
Put me in a nice dorm. We got housekeeping.

00;42;10;00 - 00;42;10;22
Speaker 3
Yes.

00;42;11;05 - 00;42;12;12
Speaker 1
I know what. I'm spending 20.

00;42;12;12 - 00;42;14;07
Speaker 3
Thousand dollars a semester.

00;42;15;04 - 00;42;15;18
Speaker 1
This year.

00;42;15;18 - 00;42;18;26
Speaker 3
It's we made a little room, which will be.

00;42;18;26 - 00;42;20;02
Speaker 2
Yes, yes. And we need some more.

00;42;20;02 - 00;42;22;12
Speaker 3
Education, apparently, before you fill out.

00;42;22;12 - 00;42;22;29
Speaker 2
These people.

00;42;23;04 - 00;42;26;24
Speaker 3
They got these. Well, yes, we did. So what.

00;42;26;24 - 00;42;27;14
Speaker 1
We're saying.

00;42;27;15 - 00;42;27;24
Speaker 3
Here.

00;42;29;00 - 00;42;43;00
Speaker 1
I mean, I think we're in agreement that young people shouldn't be forced to go right into college. Right. 18. You don't really know enough about the world to be able to make a decision about your career. And then we never got to talk about how many people are actually working in their degrees.

00;42;43;08 - 00;43;09;18
Speaker 2
So wait a minute. No, so I to do so so I have to say this because this was real to me. So I actually even I must have been like 25 where I went to get my masters. Yeah. And even then I didn't know. Like to this day I was actually talking to someone recently I think I was talking to like one of my colleagues at work and I told him that I was actually getting a master's in accounting and I was one down at CPA Track and he was like, There would have been worse thing ever.

00;43;09;18 - 00;43;10;18
Speaker 2
I could never imagine.

00;43;10;18 - 00;43;18;21
Speaker 3
You have be miserable. Yeah, you would have actually I would have pulled out all of my hair and went back to school.

00;43;19;27 - 00;43;34;18
Speaker 1
And more student loans and I'm like it's so I think it's so you said earlier about business degrees like I've I've thought about MBAs so many times. I go back and forth in my life, but then I always just think about actually building a business. Is the best MBA.

00;43;34;25 - 00;43;36;19
Speaker 3
You could ever know. Can tell you something.

00;43;36;21 - 00;43;47;12
Speaker 2
So and I've been there. So let me tell you, I did the MBA program and I did it when I didn't have a business. I was working for someone else. I was like, This is going to be the thing that gets me one way.

00;43;47;16 - 00;43;48;09
Speaker 3
Or the other by the.

00;43;48;14 - 00;44;01;21
Speaker 2
Moment, I guess what I'm trying to do. But and then when I went to build my own business, I was thinking back like, like seriously legit. I was thinking it back to some of those times. I was like, it would have been really helpful. I've been doing this right now.

00;44;01;21 - 00;44;16;04
Speaker 3
Like, my God, like, man, I wish I can remember what's going on. The capstone. I get serious, but so too don't me letting people in that I have the experience but yeah know right.

00;44;17;15 - 00;44;24;21
Speaker 1
You know but a lot of degree programs they used to have like work experience requirements, but now they just let them because it's.

00;44;24;21 - 00;44;26;24
Speaker 3
Money. Come on now.

00;44;26;24 - 00;44;40;29
Speaker 1
And that's the biggest challenge. So I watched a documentary last night about the college scandal where all the celebrities and stuff getting their kids into these great colleges. So timing is perfect on this.

00;44;41;21 - 00;44;43;24
Speaker 2
But wasn't it the baby for a mom?

00;44;44;11 - 00;44;47;27
Speaker 1
Full house for full house. Lady and a bunch of other famous.

00;44;47;27 - 00;44;49;00
Speaker 3
People that I really know.

00;44;50;02 - 00;45;20;26
Speaker 1
But it just like higher education is a business and literally I was in a meeting for an advisory committee I sit on for a university. They, they put out all the data, all the charge they target out of country master's program students who live on campus because that is where they make their profit like they specifically target. And in certain degree programs, they know what countries those are in.

00;45;20;27 - 00;45;23;08
Speaker 1
So they are actively recruiting from those countries.

00;45;23;08 - 00;45;23;14
Speaker 3
That.

00;45;23;22 - 00;45;35;06
Speaker 1
It is a business. Universities are expensive to run and so they got to give their money. I'm like and I'm, I'm, I'm, I recognize the hustle, but I was sold to.

00;45;35;06 - 00;45;36;22
Speaker 2
As of of you.

00;45;36;26 - 00;45;47;28
Speaker 1
Exact right exactly. And so I think it's being armed with the knowledge then as the customer because you are the customer begging to get into this. But but I think.

00;45;47;28 - 00;46;01;23
Speaker 2
Though, that what you're getting too is that if we are an educated people and we start to understand where the value is, like I'm not mad at the engineers because they came out making 100 grand. I'm not mad that maybe I'm a little bit doctor because they still.

00;46;02;10 - 00;46;06;06
Speaker 1
I think that's way too long. Yeah, I think that's way too long and is way too expensive.

00;46;06;06 - 00;46;17;04
Speaker 2
That's great. But I mean, there are certain career fields that make sense and yes, the school will make their money off you, but you get that in return, right? Right. You get.

00;46;17;08 - 00;46;22;22
Speaker 1
But master's of social work from Ivy League University is not only not.

00;46;22;22 - 00;46;23;21
Speaker 3
Going to get.

00;46;23;21 - 00;46;25;15
Speaker 1
You what you need to pay back that.

00;46;25;15 - 00;46;26;10
Speaker 3
University.

00;46;26;11 - 00;46;48;12
Speaker 2
Yes, but and we just need to treat it like a business. The the problem is, is that a lot of people who push this are uneducated, you know, are uninformed because you don't I mean, you don't have that same issue with people who can afford to pay for the college, don't have to loans like their pay, understand they're investing in their kids and their kids will choose to do whatever, whatever.

00;46;48;12 - 00;47;07;05
Speaker 2
Right. And so I think that we have to arm ourselves with the knowledge of return on investment. Right, right, right. Is this worth it? If my kid comes to me talking about we are going to be a school counselor and they want to go to Harvard, I'm going to sit them down and we will have a real mathematical discussion.

00;47;08;01 - 00;47;30;04
Speaker 1
But that's what I thought was so fascinating about that scandal with the celebrities, because those celebrities know the value and they're putting the money like they're putting out large sums of money because know the value they're going to get out of it. The reason you want to go to a top tier school is not for the education relationship.

00;47;30;04 - 00;47;50;16
Speaker 1
Exactly. You get in rooms with people that are going to be presidents of companies who are going to be, you know, very large influencers in society. Yeah, that is what those famous parents are paying for is not the education like you can get that same education at your local college. Like it is probably a very similar level of education.

00;47;50;29 - 00;48;04;09
Speaker 1
And so I think again, think thinking about college or university from a business standpoint, in a value standpoint, which probably at the age of 17, 18, you're not there.

00;48;04;17 - 00;48;20;06
Speaker 2
And I'm saying that say that they need us, they need the black students to to understand that you don't have to help your kids make these decisions. You don't allow them to make it. They're too big of you guys who are game.

00;48;20;19 - 00;48;20;28
Speaker 3
For.

00;48;20;28 - 00;48;28;01
Speaker 2
These college loan forgiveness because you still paying your college loans and you have children who are thinking about going to college now.

00;48;28;05 - 00;48;28;22
Speaker 3
Yes.

00;48;29;04 - 00;48;30;09
Speaker 2
If this is for you.

00;48;30;09 - 00;48;49;19
Speaker 1
This is for you. Do not put that same thinking on your kids that you had. It is obsolete. It is especially obsolete today in 2020 where little kids can become millionaires on YouTube and people can become millionaires. But pictures of their toes.

00;48;49;19 - 00;48;53;12
Speaker 3
Okay, that's always my favorite. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no.

00;48;53;12 - 00;49;20;05
Speaker 2
So it's it's funny that it's happening. I think it's just remind me. Cardi B later. Cardi B so like, I guess to me, I, I just want to put this out because it's important. If your kids are going into business life, you want them to be an entrepreneur. If you want them to do really their own thing. I advise against college because you're investing at least four years for them to go.

00;49;20;05 - 00;49;43;17
Speaker 2
I think getting them real world experience for two years and getting them to try something and maybe failing first is a way better education and the cost will be less in the long run with a lot more value. And then once they've gone through some things, allowing them to make a decision about whether or not they go is way more helpful.

00;49;43;22 - 00;49;44;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think.

00;49;44;09 - 00;50;01;07
Speaker 1
That's crucial giving them the decision, but I would push parents even do a step further. If your kid is interested in business, don't wait till they leave. So yeah, I'm like business requires a lot of not kids.

00;50;01;07 - 00;50;03;01
Speaker 2
Are eight and six and we're going to start next.

00;50;03;01 - 00;50;03;29
Speaker 3
Year you know.

00;50;04;14 - 00;50;24;11
Speaker 1
And and you should like how amazing would it be if your kids graduated with a high school diploma in a little business, like in a side hustle business where they are able to learn really the fundamentals of business are the fundamentals you actually need to run your entire life. Yeah, I'm like, and so what if you could give them those life skills?

00;50;25;00 - 00;50;30;17
Speaker 1
They would be more prepared to make a decision about college. Yeah. With that, you know, armed with.

00;50;30;17 - 00;50;37;12
Speaker 4
Those tools and that of definitely also talking about how are you going on with your life. I mean.

00;50;38;03 - 00;50;40;10
Speaker 1
Okay, we do it another episode. Okay.

00;50;41;02 - 00;50;45;05
Speaker 4
But I would I would say that an MBA component.

00;50;45;09 - 00;50;53;16
Speaker 1
Now, you were saying you were 25 at Gone with the I'm a CEO and I hate to even use that word because it feels just weird.

00;50;54;01 - 00;50;54;12
Speaker 3
Okay.

00;50;54;14 - 00;51;03;29
Speaker 1
And people think it's weird when they look at me, they're like, you're too young to be a CEO. Like, okay, whatever. But I would do an MBA now.

00;51;03;29 - 00;51;04;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, you.

00;51;04;13 - 00;51;10;07
Speaker 1
Should with my business. Yeah. And like, be applying that stuff. But I looked at some programs.

00;51;10;28 - 00;51;15;08
Speaker 3
They don't have time to be doing other stuff. Well, two things.

00;51;15;14 - 00;51;19;04
Speaker 2
So all the stuff that you learn in the MBA, you're learning right now.

00;51;19;12 - 00;51;30;15
Speaker 1
Right. But I think that there is and don't get me started, there's actually so much free training about business now, too. Yeah, you don't need to.

00;51;30;16 - 00;51;30;24
Speaker 2
Get a.

00;51;30;24 - 00;51;37;02
Speaker 1
Degree. You can go to your local small business administration and like there is so much stuff now and.

00;51;37;02 - 00;51;38;03
Speaker 2
They're teaching the same things.

00;51;38;04 - 00;51;50;12
Speaker 1
Teaching the same exact things. For me, I'm always a person who likes to go to a physical class that's just a preference of learning. But I you can get YouTube university exams, you can.

00;51;50;12 - 00;51;52;23
Speaker 3
Get any degree.

00;51;52;23 - 00;51;56;04
Speaker 1
The education that you get from any degree program on the Internet.

00;51;56;04 - 00;52;00;29
Speaker 2
I'm so happy to hear you finally say that. Well, you were the queen of going back to school about.

00;52;01;01 - 00;52;01;19
Speaker 1
No, I still.

00;52;01;19 - 00;52;02;17
Speaker 3
Want to go back to school.

00;52;02;18 - 00;52;09;18
Speaker 1
This is what I'm saying. Like even with working out like I need physical. Yeah. In an environment.

00;52;09;18 - 00;52;10;28
Speaker 2
Of learning this structure.

00;52;10;28 - 00;52;21;13
Speaker 1
Yeah, I need all of that. Don't get me wrong, I'm on YouTube all the time learning stuff, but I just need that structure to cement the learning for me.

00;52;22;05 - 00;52;22;29
Speaker 3
Like, I'm.

00;52;23;00 - 00;52;27;27
Speaker 1
Loving the school, I think. But I don't know when or for what.

00;52;28;08 - 00;52;30;10
Speaker 3
Whoever ended up with, you know.

00;52;30;10 - 00;52;48;20
Speaker 1
Lord But I remember earlier in my career, I was like really wanting to go back to school, want to go back to school. This is after having a masters in. A lady told me she was more senior than I in the role a little bit older and she was like. Why are you trying to go back to school?

00;52;48;20 - 00;52;57;01
Speaker 1
Like how much paper do you need to be confident in what you know? Yeah. And I was like, Oh.

00;52;57;01 - 00;52;57;05
Speaker 3
I.

00;52;57;10 - 00;53;21;12
Speaker 2
Know, I know. So I know it's a little off topic, but I have to tell you this, that in my adult career experience, the only people who value these pieces of paper are minorities who are thinking that this paper is going to make them something else. Yeah, and I hate to tell you this, but also my work career, those people are not the people who are going up the ladder.

00;53;21;18 - 00;53;28;15
Speaker 3
Mm. Wow. So still loan you.

00;53;28;20 - 00;53;34;26
Speaker 2
Like I genuinely at one point in my life, I don't know that I feel this way completely now, but I felt like.

00;53;35;09 - 00;53;42;13
Speaker 4
I went back to school if I had a different way of celebrating. So I to the people.

00;53;44;09 - 00;53;49;07
Speaker 2
That make sense, like, like if I have a baby, get married, get a degree.

00;53;49;24 - 00;53;57;06
Speaker 3
Become a pastor, these are in that order. I mean.

00;53;57;17 - 00;54;18;20
Speaker 2
As an adult, I feel like it's this lack of celebration, this lack of right, of idealized growth that other people would say that is an achievement that people might go back to school for. Like it's like, hey, I know somebody who has like three masters, and I'm like, just please.

00;54;19;20 - 00;54;24;01
Speaker 3
I'm just I'm just like, What? Oh, no one cares anymore.

00;54;24;16 - 00;54;41;22
Speaker 1
But, I mean, I totally get that perspective. I think unless we go like that exists, unless it is for business, like, yeah, the business decision. And so that's why I think why we're pushing if it's a business decision or not, right. If it's if the value is there or not.

00;54;41;26 - 00;54;49;19
Speaker 2
Now don't get me wrong. So I do feel like I play this with we if you got money, you got like 30,000, 40,000 and you like, I want to.

00;54;49;19 - 00;54;49;28
Speaker 3
Get an.

00;54;49;28 - 00;54;50;22
Speaker 1
Education.

00;54;50;23 - 00;54;54;06
Speaker 2
I want to give you a degree. Would you go say if that'll bring.

00;54;54;06 - 00;54;55;24
Speaker 3
You joy.

00;54;55;24 - 00;55;00;19
Speaker 2
Put your money there. But you could also go on a vacation to different countries.

00;55;01;26 - 00;55;02;06
Speaker 3
I mean.

00;55;02;12 - 00;55;03;23
Speaker 1
And you could just start doing the thing.

00;55;03;24 - 00;55;05;21
Speaker 3
And learn how to do it, whatever it is.

00;55;05;26 - 00;55;26;14
Speaker 2
But but my point is, is that if if you just love education and you need the structure and whatnot, understand that your investment is in your happiness, not in the return that you think this degree will get you, because it is not guarantee. That is not the point of that. That is not what you're supposed to achieve from it.

00;55;26;16 - 00;55;27;06
Speaker 1
That is fact.
00;55;27;19 - 00;55;32;19
Speaker 2
So so I'm not saying that I'm against you learning. If you want to learn, fine. But I don't.

00;55;32;19 - 00;55;33;05
Speaker 1
Pay for.

00;55;33;05 - 00;55;36;18
Speaker 3
It. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, I think so.

00;55;37;05 - 00;55;44;27
Speaker 1
I think this conversation is very interesting. I'm going to say shout out to all the people who got their loans forgiven. We still made.

00;55;46;08 - 00;55;46;20
Speaker 3
I think.

00;55;47;06 - 00;56;03;27
Speaker 1
But really I hope you got from this episode nuggets about making the decision about education and in leveraging education as a tool to benefit you and not be used at the benefit of the university.

00;56;03;28 - 00;56;04;26
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's good.

00;56;05;09 - 00;56;08;17
Speaker 1
Anything you would add? Let's close out the episode for our listeners.

00;56;08;17 - 00;56;10;14
Speaker 2
No, I think we said a lot of random stuff that's.

00;56;10;14 - 00;56;15;08
Speaker 3
Helpful to know, you know, eat the meats without the bones.

00;56;15;08 - 00;56;19;21
Speaker 1
However you do. We love ya. And so next time I even get to listen, to.

00;56;19;21 - 00;56;24;12
Speaker 2
Go and understand it, we are black girl fly.