In this episode of BGF, Ava and Tashaunda engage in an insightful discussion about colorism, examining its impact both historically and in modern society, particularly within the Black community. They explore how colorism intersects with beauty standards and personal identity, sharing their personal experiences.
The conversation highlights the lingering effects of colorism on self-perception and societal attitudes, addressing the challenges of raising children with a healthier understanding of beauty and identity.
This dialogue emphasizes the need for ongoing awareness and action to challenge deep-rooted colorism and its implications.
CONNECT WITH US
Website: www.blackgirlflyofficial.com
Email: hello@podcast2impact.com
Instagram: @blackgirlflyofficial
0:25 Intro
2:18 Beauty Standards
9:49 Historical Perspective
11:07 Colorism Today
13:47 Global Perspective
15:24 Personal Perspectives
20:08 Final Thoughts
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In this episode of BGF, Ava and Tashaunda engage in an insightful discussion about colorism, examining its impact both historically and in modern society, particularly within the Black community. They explore how colorism intersects with beauty standards and personal identity, sharing their personal experiences.
The conversation highlights the lingering effects of colorism on self-perception and societal attitudes, addressing the challenges of raising children with a healthier understanding of beauty and identity.
This dialogue emphasizes the need for ongoing awareness and action to challenge deep-rooted colorism and its implications.
CONNECT WITH US
Website: www.blackgirlflyofficial.com
Email: hello@podcast2impact.com
Instagram: @blackgirlflyofficial
0:25 Intro
2:18 Beauty Standards
9:49 Historical Perspective
11:07 Colorism Today
13:47 Global Perspective
15:24 Personal Perspectives
20:08 Final Thoughts
BGF Products here
Join Robinhood with my link and we'll both pick our free stock
I'm using Acorns and I love how easy it is to save and invest for my future. Join me and you'll get a free $5 investment!
Click here to receive Southwest Rapid Rewards
Click here to learn more about Gusto Payroll
Mortgage Connects, an MGIC Podcast
AVWeek
Weekly news on IT/AV, supply chain, UC, & more.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
The Unlocking Growth Show
The show where we unlock the secrets to scaling your...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
All Business. No Boundaries.
Welcome to All Business. No Boundaries, a collection of supply chain stories by DHL...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts
All Business. No Boundaries.
Welcome to All Business. No Boundaries, a collection of supply chain stories by DHL...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
13;26;22;25 - 13;26;29;23
Speaker 1
Oh. Welcome back to another episode of Black Girl, if I may. Girl, if Murray.
13;26;29;25 - 13;26;31;18
Speaker 2
And I'm not addiction.
13;26;31;20 - 13;26;58;24
Speaker 1
Today we're going to be talking about Colourism. And so I don't actually don't think we talk a lot about colorism on the podcast before but we've definitely talked about the isms we've talked about and equities. We've talked about many other topics. But I think for folks with in the black community and other cultures, to be honest, colorism is a thing.
13;26;58;28 - 13;27;20;12
Speaker 1
It is and is and we've talked about hair before on the show and I think some of that is related to colorism. But yeah, let's let's dive in because I think this is a nuance within people of color communities. But in in the work that we do, we encounter a lot of people, you know, who are who are not of people of color and Right.
13;27;20;12 - 13;27;37;08
Speaker 1
White people who may not be as familiar, which I think is also very interesting, that we live this whole life with this as a thing for us. And then we encounter people who just have no idea that this exists. And so that's another nuance. So, yeah, so I mentioned I.
13;27;37;08 - 13;27;55;06
Speaker 2
Want to make sure everybody well, I was going to say before that I want to make sure that everybody is on the same page, like how do you think colorism shows up today, like in 2023? Like, I'm I'm tired of hearing people talk about how slavery was a long time ago or how Jim Crow was even a long time ago.
13;27;55;13 - 13;28;05;01
Speaker 2
Like, how do you think colorism really still shows? How does it display itself today? What are we doing that is still rooted in that?
13;28;05;03 - 13;28;23;20
Speaker 1
I mean, that's a that's a great question on the the answer that comes right away to mind is like this archetype of beauty that exists right now is like number one, everyone's a carbon copy.
13;28;23;20 - 13;28;32;14
Speaker 2
Of Oh my God, I can't stand that. Oh my God. If I see another Lake lady front with some baby hair, I'm going to throw up.
13;28;32;17 - 13;29;07;13
Speaker 1
Everyone is a carbon copy of this marketing and this type has, you know, spine hair or light skin, preferably, you know, define facial features, be face, right. Makeup on point. Nice. Now and Melissa generally Eurocentric features, but some color to the skin. Not too dark. No, but definitely not white. And you know, then we get into the body.
13;29;07;13 - 13;29;11;19
Speaker 1
We're talking Bebo, like, of course. And like this is.
13;29;11;19 - 13;29;26;07
Speaker 2
Well, that's interesting to me, though, that that the Bebo thing is here because that is more, you know, afro rooted. If you look like that happens to me.
13;29;26;09 - 13;29;45;04
Speaker 1
I mean but it's that with the rest. Right. And so I think this archetype is actually pulling in many features from different cultures into this one. But I think the problem is there's not really anybody who's naturally like that. Oh, this thing.
13;29;45;06 - 13;30;10;10
Speaker 2
I mean, you get some good mix us together, you might be apart. But but I would say to that point, I mean, when I think about colorism, I honestly have to think my own personal experiences. My mom would tell me so grow that my mom was very fair skinned and so she was on the verge of I can't be someone to like because then my babies would be clear.
13;30;10;16 - 13;30;34;22
Speaker 2
And I wanted a little color, but not too much color. Like, and I think about even so, my partner, his his mom is really dark skinned and she would only date light skinned guys and like, that was like a criteria for her is I couldn't be with someone that would make my children be as dark as I am.
13;30;34;24 - 13;30;48;21
Speaker 2
And she lived with that right. And that was I think it's a largely attribute it to this ideal of beauty and that you're not beautiful if you know you're your darker and complexion.
13;30;48;23 - 13;31;01;09
Speaker 1
That's so interesting because, like, I reflect on childhood and like, I kind of knew that that was a thing, but I didn't really know that that was the thing until you.
13;31;01;11 - 13;31;08;17
Speaker 2
Totally a thing. My only ever dated dark guy for that reason. She said that all the time.
13;31;08;18 - 13;31;24;25
Speaker 1
I didn't know that. And I really. Yes, but that makes so. So the reason I say I knew it, but I didn't know it because even when I started, like dating and entertaining guys, I had this, like, deep conviction around, like, I can't date a white guy.
13;31;24;28 - 13;31;27;19
Speaker 2
But I get.
13;31;27;20 - 13;31;36;03
Speaker 1
There. But I didn't know it was it's coming from this colourism thing, but I thought it was just because we weren't supposed to like white people.
13;31;36;08 - 13;31;45;27
Speaker 2
So you're like, is a colorism of a racist? We're blind. Do they.
13;31;46;01 - 13;32;11;28
Speaker 1
Know that? No. But there you go. It's a light bulb moment. But I for myself, that was the only thing that was kind of off limits. I had never really for myself, you know, I really liked chocolate guys in theory, but I never dated one. I always, you know, said I wanted to date a chocolate person, but like, it never actually.
13;32;11;29 - 13;32;14;06
Speaker 1
I mean, when we one time I.
13;32;14;09 - 13;32;18;13
Speaker 2
Never I was really I was thinking about it. I was like eating. I don't know.
13;32;18;16 - 13;32;33;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So but I never really thought about that. I mean, until you explain it like that. What about you? What was your your dating, your dating choices based on what you knew our our parents generation was doing.
13;32;33;07 - 13;32;54;23
Speaker 2
I don't like, I thought I was. Well, I've always had this weird idea about my own complexion. So I grew up my mom and my sister were lighter than me growing up. I don't know if that's completely the same, according to Ava, but they were lighter than me when I when I grew up, I was the darkest one in the house.
13;32;54;23 - 13;33;22;16
Speaker 2
But then my father had a wife and kids that lived in a separate house. And I was actually the lightest person at his house when I went to visit him. And so I always felt like I could kind of go in between. So I don't think that I ever, like, decided that I would. I thought I was dark enough to wear whatever I did would be fine, but I was light enough to wherever I did was vibe, I guess.
13;33;22;18 - 13;33;48;24
Speaker 2
And even it's funny because my my kids were born and they were all pretty fair skinned when they were born. And now they come out in somewhere in the middle mostly. But my partner is of darker skin tone that I am. And so I, I had I know I had imagined that my children would be more brown than they were, but I don't know that I've ever was like, I'm only going to date him because my kids will look this way.
13;33;48;24 - 13;34;10;19
Speaker 2
And I know my mom did that. Like when Mom tells me or told me stories about how when she found out she was pregnant with my father, she's like, my daughter's going to have beautiful skin. Like that was something that she actually said to me growing up is that she was really excited about the mixture of their two skins and what that would mean for for my skin or my complexion.
13;34;10;21 - 13;34;13;21
Speaker 2
And I was like, that's interesting.
13;34;13;23 - 13;34;42;04
Speaker 1
I go back to why she thought that, though, because, Right, she didn't want to be with someone light skin because they had her generation had this really messed up relationship with whiteness and their proximity to whiteness. Yeah. Because they got white in their blood. Yes. And they live in the south side of Chicago where, I mean, I don't know.
13;34;42;04 - 13;34;43;15
Speaker 1
It wasn't cool to be white where.
13;34;43;18 - 13;35;00;26
Speaker 2
It wasn't white, not in the black community. Like because black people felt like you were treated better than them. But why shouldn't they, like the darker skinned people? I mean, they were they were treated better than them. I remember I heard I don't know if I heard the story. I think it was Uncle Marcus. I can't it was one of our uncles.
13;35;00;26 - 13;35;30;11
Speaker 2
So just some writers on the same page. Our grandmother's father is white and her brothers, half of them were really light and half of them were brown skinned. And so growing up, you know, this was the 1670s. They were like growing up. And one of my uncles, it was my Uncle Marcus, he he could get a job right away, like the darker skinned brothers.
13;35;30;13 - 13;35;55;29
Speaker 2
It would take time. And he's like, They loved me. I was light enough to kind of pass a little bit so I could walk into me. And he gave. He told the story about how he walked into this one place and they gave him a job that day. And that was that was normal. And so going back to the story that I was talking about in that time frame, darker skinned people didn't like the lighter skinned people because they were treated better right inside Israel.
13;35;56;05 - 13;35;56;13
Speaker 1
Yeah.
13;35;56;13 - 13;36;24;18
Speaker 2
And so and so if you were lighter in your community, it was actually harder for you because you were more accepted outside of your community. And so I do think that played a lot into the perceptions about what you wanted your children to look like and what you didn't want your children to look like, like you didn't want your children dark enough so that they would be considered ugly, but you didn't want your children light enough that their own people would not accept them with open arms.
13;36;24;21 - 13;36;44;12
Speaker 1
Interesting. And which is all like instinctually an internal maternal right. You don't want your children to have a bad experience because of a decision that you made. And so, like, logically, instinctually, I can understand the thought process, however crazy it really is.
13;36;44;14 - 13;36;49;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's crazy. And 2023 I don't think it's all crazy. In 1967.
13;36;49;15 - 13;37;01;25
Speaker 1
But so I know when I go back to your original question around how Colourism shows up today versus that, do you think it's very different? It sounds like you think it's very different.
13;37;01;28 - 13;37;33;00
Speaker 2
I don't actually think it's it's that different. I think that I think that it is less prevalent. And I'd say in other communities like in the United States, I don't think that I'm I don't want to say these words, but that white people still consider like the house nigga, the light skinned guy and the field nigga of the dark skinned guy.
13;37;33;03 - 13;38;13;22
Speaker 2
I think that it is actually a more prevalent and I'm not saying it's not existent in the white community, but I think it is more prevalent within the black community as a basis for discrimination or being it is outside of it. And I've heard guys say I prefer light skinned girls or I've heard, you know, people say, I want you to look a certain way or I like curly hair or straight hair or, you know, by the attributes that are praised in the black community I think are more consistent with more Caucasian features.
13;38;13;25 - 13;38;18;12
Speaker 1
I think not even Caucasian. I think mixed features.
13;38;18;14 - 13;38;24;18
Speaker 2
Well, I just don't in the Bible. Is that what you're saying? Is making them?
13;38;24;20 - 13;38;51;19
Speaker 1
No, because, I mean, the curly hair. White people don't have curly hair. And I mean, there's wavy hair, but like this curly in the curl, you know, in the natural hair community, this curly hair that you really only get mixed race that does define curly talking to what I call on to see. You know what I mean? That's not kinky.
13;38;51;21 - 13;39;04;23
Speaker 2
Well, because. But are they are they doing that thing where they're like, well, my kids can't be too white, right. Or by the same parameter being put on it, that would move it back and maybe. Right.
13;39;04;25 - 13;39;11;29
Speaker 1
Maybe it's the same lupus. Interesting. Look, that's really interesting. I mean, even.
13;39;12;02 - 13;39;43;25
Speaker 2
Like, I don't know if you heard Tyreese, so. Tyreese, Gibson, the singer he married, I think she was Indian lady and he was walking around calling her his Nubian princess or whatever, and, and his, his faith. So the black community got mad and was like, she's not. And he was like, and he was like, she not white. Like, like that was that was his going that it was in his mind.
13;39;43;25 - 13;40;03;23
Speaker 2
And I think in many people's minds, they're not white. It's good to go. I mean, I think about other cultures like like in the Indian culture, this is prevalent. Like this colorism thing is still huge in India. They are they are darker skinned Indians that live in certain places, and it signifies to them that they come out of lower upbringings, right.
13;40;03;23 - 13;40;26;25
Speaker 2
That they're out in the sun, that they work, and that if you're white or you come from money because you didn't have to go, you, you know, you know. And so I still think it does still exist even outside of we're talking about just the US in kind of some of the things there, there are implications that that play out in the greater.
13;40;26;27 - 13;40;53;15
Speaker 1
You know interesting. Well my my I mean in general my mind is blown. I you know, I was super curious to tackle this because I think it's something that we don't really talk about today. But this is a really important nuance that exists, I think, within this like diversity, equity and inclusion conversation that people are just not really even having.
13;40;53;15 - 13;41;17;18
Speaker 1
And so, you know, a lot of people talk about affinities were mostly just talking about race ethnicity. But like with and like the colorism thing touches on class, which we don't talk about a lot of the times. And I think it even has some gender connotations, too, right, because of the standards for women versus the standards for men.
13;41;17;18 - 13;41;23;08
Speaker 1
I think there is, you know, sometimes different standards for that. So it's all yes, I agree.
13;41;23;09 - 13;41;42;28
Speaker 2
And even for for me, I had to recognize that I had those on. Like. Like what? Like we talked a lot about like the external. I had those images in my head growing up. I thought you were so much more pretty than I was. And I think it was pretty centered around the fact that you're light skinned with long hair.
13;41;43;01 - 13;42;07;28
Speaker 2
And I don't know that I ever express that outwardly, but internally I definitely held that. Like I was like, I'm not as good. And it's so interesting because it's taken me to get to the point where I have children. Like, I look at this super well, I'm just all about this skin. There I go. But like I look at my daughter, my oldest daughter, she looks a lot like me.
13;42;08;00 - 13;42;36;19
Speaker 2
And I found myself looking at her and going, how did And I know I was beautiful. Like, why? I'm like, cut the head to Jabba. Like like it took me that to be out of body and to love someone enough and to see me in that person. For me to acknowledge that I have the thought that I didn't look like, you know, I was, you know, interesting.
13;42;36;21 - 13;43;17;11
Speaker 1
Whatever. So that saw the other side of that is. So I didn't I didn't feel super beautiful. Like, I never really felt that. But I did feel growing up like that, people held me to a different standard. And I internalized that in terms of like, I could never make mistakes and I could never admit to those mistakes. And so the shame that I was always carrying because of what I perceived of like people's expectations of me was so high that I could never I knew I wasn't perfect enough to attain them until like, Wow, that's interesting.
13;43;17;11 - 13;43;36;05
Speaker 2
Oh my God, it's so opposite for me. I thought, well, like people in my opinion, I don't know if this was true. I thought mostly people thought lesser of me and I had to prove them wrong. Wow.
13;43;36;07 - 13;43;38;05
Speaker 1
It's very it's sexy.
13;43;38;07 - 13;43;43;06
Speaker 2
That was deep. I mean, I don't know where to go with every.
13;43;43;11 - 13;44;09;10
Speaker 1
I never really thought about that. And so you just share what you were talking about. So. But that's real. I think it's you know, I think it's important for us to process the, you know, these things that we have Kerry do to, you know, whatever it is that it has been. But I think just the way that we were raised in general and, you know, you said even as you're raising your children, right, like what values are you wanting to pass on?
13;44;09;10 - 13;44;10;19
Speaker 1
And I think in some ways.
13;44;10;19 - 13;44;43;05
Speaker 2
To how do you teach them the standard of beauty? That's the question that I had when I thought about colorism. How am I showing my children that your complexion has nothing to do with your beauty right. And that's something that I am confident is up to you, because I do have children that are different complexions and to make sure that not overemphasize them, because I do know that that is an issue that that our extended family has had.
13;44;43;05 - 13;45;09;10
Speaker 2
Like I talked about my partner's mother and knowing that she's battled that that that's a generational thing, that she's battled like, how do I make sure that I change that dynamic, that I communicate right, that difference in thought and philosophy so they won't experience the things that you and I were just talking about. And they will be able to see their own beauty regardless of their election.
13;45;09;12 - 13;45;36;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, and and I can say for sure we've had covers like I doubt that they're unaware because we've talked about it right. Like this has been conversations for years so I think that's exactly right what you're saying like well how do you still steward it in a way that is a benefit? Because I'm like color, hair size, like all these things.
13;45;36;22 - 13;45;39;11
Speaker 2
They come up every day. Those things come up every.
13;45;39;11 - 13;45;52;21
Speaker 1
Day, every day. And then you get to go send them out into the world and the world is talking about it every day. And, you know, and so. So yeah. Oh, that's right.
13;45;52;23 - 13;46;02;05
Speaker 2
Feel like you get stressed out. You get stressed that that's what. Oh, figure.
13;46;02;06 - 13;46;35;11
Speaker 1
Oh, really. I'm tired. Or in this book, you know I know this conversation. You know, this blessed me very much so. You know, I think we unpack some layers that that I didn't even think about in there at and I know we're there so. So, yes, I just appreciate you having this conversation and encourage folks to unpacked unpack the layers, unpack the the onion to I mean get some more insight about yourself and thinking about, you know, the future and the things that you want to pass on and don't want to pass on.
13;46;35;14 - 13;46;43;17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that's good. Awesome. So until next time, I'm a girl at Marie Montana. Dixon and we are black girl flag.