Church: Evolving Spiritual Needs

In this episode of BGF, Ava, and Tashaunda discuss Black millennials' shifting relationship with the church, reflecting on a documentary that highlights diverse experiences, including LGBTQ perspectives and alternative spiritual practices. They explore the diminishing relevance of traditional churches among millennials and the importance of adapting church engagement to meet evolving spiritual needs. 

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00:39 Intro
1:07 Black Millennial and the Church Documentary
5:30 Personal Experiences and Perspectives
8:58 Value of Church
11:51 Representation
17:12 Challenge of Connecting
19:15 Final Thoughts

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Transcript

12;55;04;06 - 12;55;07;09

Speaker 1

Welcome back to another episode of Black. I'm Your Girl.

12;55;07;09 - 12;55;10;16

Speaker 2

If Marie and I'm not a Dixon.

12;55;10;19 - 12;55;20;02

Speaker 1

And today we can be talking about. I don't think we've ever talked about this before the podcast, but we're going to be talking about church.

12;55;20;04 - 12;55;22;29

Speaker 2

Oh, well, we've never talked about church.

12;55;23;02 - 12;55;23;22

Speaker 3

Though.

12;55;23;24 - 12;56;03;02

Speaker 1

So. Okay. Okay. New York. Y'all are correct as ever. But we definitely talked about spirituality and God, but I don't think we specifically have had an episode dedicated to church. So I don't know. Yeah. Listen, it's been it's been a lot of seasons. So the BU and I went to see a documentary at the African-American History Museum. It was like they're doing their debut movie or short film, and it was on black Millennials and the church.

12;56;03;04 - 12;56;06;25

Speaker 2

Okay. Black millennials in the church. Okay.

12;56;06;27 - 12;56;26;18

Speaker 1

And so it puts a lower grade. I mean, hey, I wasn't expecting this. I wasn't expecting the reaction that I had. I left the documentary feeling some type of way and feeling like super depressed about. Oh, okay.

12;56;26;19 - 12;56;28;04

Speaker 2

CHURCH Oh, no.

12;56;28;05 - 12;56;30;07

Speaker 3

Okay.

12;56;30;10 - 12;56;56;00

Speaker 1

And I think this also comes on the heels because we actually work with a number of churches, you know, on the initiatives and like one of the big questions I'm always asking them is like, what are the consequences if we do nothing? And the answer to that is like faith in the world dies. And that's scary to me as a Christian.

12;56;56;00 - 12;56;57;23

Speaker 1

I'm like, Wow.

12;56;57;26 - 12;57;04;00

Speaker 2

So what did you see? Like, like you have to tell us, like, what happened? What were they saying? And then did you think it was true?

12;57;04;02 - 12;57;34;05

Speaker 1

Oh, in the documentary, it followed like, you know, maybe a handful of millennials and their different experiences in the church. And so you had some folks, particularly with the LGBTQ, closed background down in them, kind of sharing their traumas in the church and kind of why they have strayed away from the church. And if you, you know, have been a member of the black church, a traditional black church, I mean, this is not unfamiliar to you.

12;57;34;05 - 12;57;50;10

Speaker 1

Like I remember this as a child. Like this was the thing. And so so there was that component. But then there was also these other religions that have cropped up. There was a couple of people representing mysticism, which I never I never.

12;57;50;10 - 12;57;55;25

Speaker 2

Heard of, like, what is that? I don't know. Someone's going to tell us about this. But I think that.

12;57;55;28 - 12;58;00;16

Speaker 1

You know, I deal with this in so but it doesn't sound good. But I mean.

12;58;00;16 - 12;58;12;02

Speaker 2

Even like there's this this positive speech thing, it's not a religion, but people like Die Hard about like straight speaking into your future. Like, I think it is a.

12;58;12;02 - 12;58;13;04

Speaker 1

Manifesting.

12;58;13;04 - 12;58;20;28

Speaker 2

Manifestation. Yes. That's what it is. And that I do think, is a movement away from the church.

12;58;21;00 - 12;58;31;06

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I would say there was elements of that, but certainly representation of these other religions and this concept of spirituality.

12;58;31;11 - 12;58;34;06

Speaker 2

Yeah. Okay, That's okay. I could see that.

12;58;34;09 - 12;58;57;08

Speaker 1

And so that was another theme. And then there was also there was a little highlight around like churches being a center for activism. Right. And like, you know, historically in our community, like churches have been and they, you know, shouted out a bunch of folks, Martin Luther King or.

12;58;57;10 - 12;59;01;09

Speaker 2

John Gay about.

12;59;01;12 - 12;59;32;17

Speaker 1

Malcolm X, right. As religion we think about and a couple other folks, politicians, things like that, I don't know. But I'm blanking on the names at the moment. I apologize. So the church as a, you know, community civil social justice center as well. And then this other concept of the church becoming just irrelevant in general for millennials and church becoming being replaced with things like brunch.

12;59;32;19 - 12;59;33;22

Speaker 1

And that's as.

12;59;33;23 - 12;59;39;17

Speaker 3

Far as what I'm talking about. Is that a thing of that? Okay.

12;59;39;19 - 12;59;45;13

Speaker 2

Because brunch is more important, their fame, not because they are being fed, you know, spiritually.

12;59;45;14 - 13;00;00;24

Speaker 1

No, that's not what they're saying. They were saying they were getting fed there because of the community that, okay, you know, it's a similar you go to your community and brunch context, the more informal context. And that's the part I was like, have you.

13;00;00;28 - 13;00;04;23

Speaker 3

Lost? Well.

13;00;04;25 - 13;00;08;15

Speaker 2

They have some different kind of branches that I.

13;00;08;17 - 13;00;30;02

Speaker 1

But, you know, when your gut reaction to that was mine and I was like, this don't make no sense. And then when I kind of understood, I was like, they're still in church today. I get where you coming from? Yeah. So all of those stories and I'm probably missing some, but all of them just made me feel really sad about the future of faith.

13;00;30;08 - 13;00;42;09

Speaker 1

And I was just like, If this is what we believe as millennials, what are we going to teach our kids? Yeah, and you know, what does that mean for their kids? And like, we're just going to be a lost generation. And that's well, our father.

13;00;42;10 - 13;01;11;21

Speaker 2

Well, I get that. So I don't know if I think that that's true, though. Like, I do get the context, I do get some of the common behavior that's going on. And so this is I'm glad I got to interject some of my experience. So I've been a member of a church for a few years now, and I actually did come to a point where I recognized that I wasn't getting everything that I needed from even that church environment.

13;01;11;24 - 13;01;34;12

Speaker 2

And I wonder if if there's still a realization of that. So, like, we know brunch is not church, right? It's not you don't get the same things. Yes. There's components of the community that you get, but I don't think you get the hope. I don't think you get the relationship. I don't think that you get that connection, clarity.

13;01;34;12 - 13;01;36;06

Speaker 2

And you're like, oh, yeah.

13;01;36;13 - 13;01;37;07

Speaker 1

Oh, God.

13;01;37;09 - 13;01;50;11

Speaker 2

Yeah. So like, do you really believe that this is happening? What about the mega ball? What about the movement to this more moderate church like the elevations of the world?

13;01;50;14 - 13;02;18;27

Speaker 1

When I think about the people who I'm not friends, none of them go to church, right? My friends from college, friends from high school. Like people in my circles, people in our family don't go to church. It's not a value. And so when I look at that, I say, Oh, we lost, but I know there are people going to church.

13;02;18;29 - 13;02;24;25

Speaker 1

Unfortunately, it's not the people in my circles. And what does that say about me and my circle?

13;02;24;27 - 13;02;29;24

Speaker 2

No, I'm I'm thinking about people I know, even the most safe people I know.

13;02;30;01 - 13;02;32;19

Speaker 3

What a jerk it's.

13;02;32;22 - 13;02;35;06

Speaker 1

Well.

13;02;35;08 - 13;02;43;06

Speaker 2

I. Oh, that's a good one. So I do what opposes To the audience, though, Are you guys going to church? Are you guys have been brought.

13;02;43;08 - 13;02;46;29

Speaker 3

You know, people had indicated that.

13;02;47;01 - 13;03;11;27

Speaker 1

They A we can't have oh you see why I've had this issue this I yeah I left. Yeah I left like I was like I was fuming when we left and they had like a reception afterwards and the cast was there and everybody, you know, I was in the film in like we went to talk to these people at the table and I was just like, Well, what did you think of that?

13;03;11;27 - 13;03;25;01

Speaker 1

And like, the people were like, Oh my God, she was amazing. And like, they knew the director and so they were like, you know, praising the film. And I felt like I was the only one. Like, what was it?

13;03;25;03 - 13;03;55;21

Speaker 2

So this is interesting. So I'm now thinking, you know, I'm a doer, right? I'm actually we have this audience. We have a black girl in my audience, right? What are we doing wrong? What this tells me is that somewhere in our practices, we've lost varying the value of church. Like like you talked about the clarity. We only want to experience the black like.

13;03;55;25 - 13;04;22;24

Speaker 2

Or do they not know? I mean, is it about a connection that that that we have that we have not communicated outwardly? Like church isn't just about having community, but it's about experiencing God. It's about servicing people, right? Like, like how do you are we missing something as the generation of people who understand or who still find value?

13;04;23;01 - 13;04;39;10

Speaker 2

Maybe the real problem is that we have stopped being disciples. You know, we have stopped sharing the message we like. I mean, we don't like we don't do it like we used to, right? You remember the Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on the doors?

13;04;39;13 - 13;04;45;01

Speaker 1

Yes, they do. But I think they still do that. Maybe that means that.

13;04;45;03 - 13;05;18;22

Speaker 2

Well, not just that, but they they've lost contact because knocking on doors should be a mechanism for communication. And now, you know, Instagram is a method of communication or, you know, why is it that we've allowed people to continue? This is interesting because I'm I'm not actually I got I had a point to clear there. Are we allowing people who are not millennials doing the same things they used to do to try to give out that much needed message about the benefits, the values or whatever.

13;05;18;24 - 13;05;28;11

Speaker 2

And the next generation didn't step in and say, this is how I transform that communication to reach the masses.

13;05;28;14 - 13;05;30;27

Speaker 1

That's an interesting question.

13;05;30;29 - 13;05;52;10

Speaker 2

I mean, it's happening. So this is what I thought about. I was just having a conversation actually about trade schools and and so there's a shortage of pilots, there's a shortage of electricians and plumbers. And so and what I brought that back to is that there was an expectation in those industries that people understood the value of going into those.

13;05;52;10 - 13;06;05;03

Speaker 2

And it didn't. We went through this mass, you know, communication, this mass marketing at about four year institutions, and everyone stopped doing trades and started going there. And now we're reaping the.

13;06;05;05 - 13;06;20;04

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, I think you're right about that. I think we're entering into a period now where that's changing but doesn't where the focus and the energy is like that's kind of what what wins.

13;06;20;07 - 13;06;22;01

Speaker 2

What grows. They say that right?

13;06;22;01 - 13;06;23;26

Speaker 3

That's yeah.

13;06;23;28 - 13;06;49;05

Speaker 1

So what is so what I heard you say though is like there's two component. So there is are we reaching millennials in the way that they want to be reached? And I see evidence of that through digital platforms, which churches, many of which have moved too. And so there is and there is a question now of if I attend church online, am I a member of a church community?

13;06;49;06 - 13;07;11;15

Speaker 1

And so I think we haven't reconciled what it means to be digitally engaged in church. Community is partially one is one of the questions. And the other question is who's pastoring the churches and is it millennial voices being represented in church leadership and in church pastor ship? And I think it's hit or miss on that front.

13;07;11;18 - 13;07;34;00

Speaker 2

So let me ask you, so you said earlier about when you think about your friends and they don't go to church, what kind of churches do they grow up in? And so I'm asking this because I do think there are ministers out there who minister to the millennials, but the people that I can see that do that, they were introduced to that environment.

13;07;34;07 - 13;07;49;10

Speaker 2

Like when I think about the churches that I've gone to, you know, I grew up Baptist and they were not reaching the millennials, you know, didn't know because they're about the LGBTQ plus community. They were not invited to the to the cookout.

13;07;49;13 - 13;07;54;18

Speaker 1

Right. I knew the choir leader, director they knew.

13;07;54;21 - 13;08;25;05

Speaker 2

But so what I'm saying is, are the generations that are impacted by not moving forward with this church participation, is it because they haven't been exposed to leadership or discipleship that they can relate to and they now know that there is a place for me at church and it's not my old school Baptist grandmother's church. It's a place that I can be fed, that I can be nurtured, that I can be me, be a millennial in.

13;08;25;05 - 13;08;54;08

Speaker 1

And so my patrol site is the first of which is a little bit different. So I feel like we did not get a lot of life teaching in our home growing up. Like I, I was ill prepared for life, dealing with emotions, knowing how to navigate the job market, knowing how to navigate relationships, everything as it relates to being an adult, woefully unprepared because I did not learn those skills at home.

13;08;54;10 - 13;09;18;25

Speaker 1

I feel like because of my relationship in church, I get that guidance that I've missed through the Bible or through God's prompting. It's right like I get the clarity that I mean, that's why that's so important to me. But that's a dependency that I have because of how I grew it. Most of my friends don't have that issue, so I think that's a hallmark of my relationship.

13;09;18;28 - 13;09;41;28

Speaker 1

But another thing that I'll say is when I was born in Charlotte, I did not become a Christian, so I chosen to become a Christian until my mid twenties. I despise church as a young child. It was so annoying and I think many of my friends who did go to church as young children had similar feelings because I felt very performative.

13;09;42;01 - 13;09;51;22

Speaker 1

Like even their parents going and taking them was very performative. It's just an is it's to have it's just a thing we do. And how do.

13;09;51;24 - 13;09;55;21

Speaker 2

You even know who you actually are? Yeah.

13;09;55;24 - 13;09;58;26

Speaker 1

I mean, I don't even think they're getting to how it's just this is what we do.

13;09;58;26 - 13;10;10;27

Speaker 2

I was saying that their parents weren't themselves and going to church, they performed the, you know, the diets, if you will, of going to church.

13;10;10;29 - 13;10;21;29

Speaker 1

I don't even think I think that saying too much. I think they were just, you know, legit. I think it was just the thing to do on Sunday either know church.

13;10;22;01 - 13;10;31;01

Speaker 2

Saying they didn't care, but they cooked every other day of the week. They were these long skirts, but they, you know, were exposed later on.

13;10;31;04 - 13;10;47;23

Speaker 1

My friends, my friends did not have that background. Maybe some of us we did. But like their friends, their parents are normal. This was just part of their real life. Okay. Okay. They're upstanding adults.

13;10;47;23 - 13;10;52;06

Speaker 3

Let's cool to.

13;10;52;08 - 13;11;17;17

Speaker 1

That. It wasn't like that. It was just like we Catholic. So we go to Mass or we do this because I went to a Catholic school. Like it's not, you know what I mean? So so for them and I don't think they see their value in it. How I was sharing with you my first point like I'm heavily reliant on this as like a mechanism to live life.

13;11;17;19 - 13;11;33;28

Speaker 1

And so for my friends, I think that might be a disconnect. So I think they don't see the need or the value to just do this routine because honestly, none of their friends go to church. So who they go and go to church and see? Yeah.

13;11;33;28 - 13;11;37;17

Speaker 2

So what do we do with that? What's the take away? What are you saying?

13;11;37;20 - 13;11;43;00

Speaker 1

I told you I was depressed so.

13;11;43;02 - 13;12;00;06

Speaker 2

I would oppose the questions. Timelessness, though. What do you guys see? What? What what is it that you're experiencing? And also for those of us who like to take action, what can we do to change the future?

13;12;00;09 - 13;12;04;21

Speaker 1

I mean, you're not going give me no results speech.

13;12;04;24 - 13;12;07;01

Speaker 3

Okay.

13;12;07;03 - 13;12;28;08

Speaker 1

I think that's a great question for the listeners, but I need some words off of this because I was I mean, I've come to a little bit more closure on this was a few weeks ago, but this is something that weighs heavy on me Village. It like they don't feel it. I think I've given.

13;12;28;08 - 13;12;49;08

Speaker 2

It all that I could I do. I think that like we were always taught in the Bible that you meet people where they are. Jesus didn't walk around in the church with No, let me save you. Let me save you. Why? You have you know it at my doorstep, right? You in my building. He went to where they were right.

13;12;49;08 - 13;13;19;12

Speaker 2

And and ministered to them and showed them that he could meet a need. And I think that there are mighty few that you are in that mighty few. And that that's what you all for. Being his child, Right? That that you are a disciple and you don't disciple in the church house. You disciple where people are. And that all the things that you think are valuable in that relationship.

13;13;19;15 - 13;13;53;06

Speaker 2

It's not just about guidance on life decisions, it's about relationships, it's about hope, it's about faith. It's about knowing that God is true and mighty and there is no you without Him that, you know, he's your father. And and I think that that message, when delivered in a way that people can receive, is hard to ignore. And so I have hope still.

13;13;53;09 - 13;14;13;15

Speaker 2

My my question and what I'm hearing, though, is that we're not doing enough and that we need to be better disciples, is all I'm hearing. And that's been a common, common issue throughout time. Right? So that's what I'd say to you. I hope that that could be of some hope. That's all like.

13;14;13;16 - 13;14;44;10

Speaker 1

You know, But that was perfectly okay. I think. Thank you, sister. So so yeah, I know in my midlife crises for the moment, but yeah this is, it's, it's real out here. And, you know, I think I'm taking that message to heart and that's kind of my takeaway from from the conversation is, you know, well, what is our role in discipleship and how well are we you know, how well are we doing on that job?

13;14;44;10 - 13;14;57;22

Speaker 1

And, you know, the fact that I do have so many friends on church side, does that just mean I ain't doing my job? And also people need to come on their own time. Just as you know, it took me 20 something years to figure it out.

13;14;57;22 - 13;15;01;23

Speaker 2

And it's 20, 23 come. We may not be coming in the building.

13;15;01;25 - 13;15;34;11

Speaker 1

Yeah, and I think you could blame friend who? It's first Lord. I'll start to doubt, but no, no, no. I think us as Christians also need to expand what our beliefs are around. You know what it means to be churched. You know what I mean? So. So you are. That is. That's it for now. This day I look forward to revisiting having more church topics going forward in the future.

13;15;34;14 - 13;15;39;15

Speaker 1

So until next time I'm your girl, I'm right back. Channel Dixon and we are black girl flag.